So here's the situation: my son and his wife got themselves a black lab puppy a couple of years ago - they also have a mini doberman and 3 small children...and full time jobs.
The problem is that they don't have a fenced area for Louie (the lab), and they have a very small house. And a surprising lack of common sense, compassion and empathy for other creatures, apparently...
When Louie was smaller, he lived in the house, on the loose, with the children and the other dawg - but when he became large (surprise!), they got him a crate for sleeping, and a smallish kennel for outside. The kennel they had for him outside was only big enough for him to pace in, and the crate is barely large enough for him to stand up in.
For about a year and a half, he was always either in the crate or in the kennel - no more being "part of the family", no play time, nowhere to run.
Then about 6 months ago, the kennel was destroyed in a storm, and they have yet to replace it. Apparently someone they know has offered to give them one that is no longer in use, but that hasn't happened yet.
So now, Louie is in his crate all day and all night - they say they take him for potty walks 3-4 times a day.
I offered to help them pay for fencing, but their landlady won't allow it, I offered to buy them a larger kennel, but no, no, they're going to be getting one from this person they know, any minute now. I've offered to help them find a new home for Louie, where he can be part of a family or at LEAST have a life, but they become angry and defensive, insisting that they could never give Louie away, because they LOVE him!!???
My latest evil plan is to first find someone to either adopt him, or keep him in the interim, then go for a visit, take Louie for a walk, have my accomplice drive up and pick Louie up, and go back to my son's house saying that Louie got away from me - he is a very large, energetic dog, and has actually dragged me a couple of times.
Anyway - I just don't know what to do - my son and daughter in law refuse to listen to me anymore when I bring up the subject of Louie, but I can't just back off and not do anything.
I've thought of an anonymous call to Animal Control, but the problem there is that no one who hasn't been in the house would know what's going on with the dog, so they would know it was me, since I seem to be the only person who is bothered by this, somehow.
Anyone out there in doggie land have any brilliant ideas?
Sorry this is so long - it's a long story.
The problem is that they don't have a fenced area for Louie (the lab), and they have a very small house. And a surprising lack of common sense, compassion and empathy for other creatures, apparently...
When Louie was smaller, he lived in the house, on the loose, with the children and the other dawg - but when he became large (surprise!), they got him a crate for sleeping, and a smallish kennel for outside. The kennel they had for him outside was only big enough for him to pace in, and the crate is barely large enough for him to stand up in.
For about a year and a half, he was always either in the crate or in the kennel - no more being "part of the family", no play time, nowhere to run.
Then about 6 months ago, the kennel was destroyed in a storm, and they have yet to replace it. Apparently someone they know has offered to give them one that is no longer in use, but that hasn't happened yet.
So now, Louie is in his crate all day and all night - they say they take him for potty walks 3-4 times a day.
I offered to help them pay for fencing, but their landlady won't allow it, I offered to buy them a larger kennel, but no, no, they're going to be getting one from this person they know, any minute now. I've offered to help them find a new home for Louie, where he can be part of a family or at LEAST have a life, but they become angry and defensive, insisting that they could never give Louie away, because they LOVE him!!???
My latest evil plan is to first find someone to either adopt him, or keep him in the interim, then go for a visit, take Louie for a walk, have my accomplice drive up and pick Louie up, and go back to my son's house saying that Louie got away from me - he is a very large, energetic dog, and has actually dragged me a couple of times.
Anyway - I just don't know what to do - my son and daughter in law refuse to listen to me anymore when I bring up the subject of Louie, but I can't just back off and not do anything.
I've thought of an anonymous call to Animal Control, but the problem there is that no one who hasn't been in the house would know what's going on with the dog, so they would know it was me, since I seem to be the only person who is bothered by this, somehow.
Anyone out there in doggie land have any brilliant ideas?
Sorry this is so long - it's a long story.
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 12:13 PMreally, you guys - this is a serious question, I really am looking for some feedback.....
thanks in advance ----sally -
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 6:08 PMThis is sad, Sally. I do not know what to tell you. Lab type dogs need space...I have no idea what to say. Have you researched any dog rescue groups in your area and asked them for advice?
I really can't counsel you to "steal" your son's dog, but it sounds as if the poor guy doesn't have a very happy life. Hours is a crate is not good for labs. Please let us know what happens..
Laurajean -
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 10:36 PMthanks for responding - yes, I contacted two lab rescue groups here - one never responded at all, and a woman I spoke to at the other one said that she doesn't believe Louie would be adoptable after being kept confined for so much of his life.
I know that dognapping isn't a good idea - for one thing, I don't know how I'd live with myself keeping that secret, and my son would be sure to find out it was me at some point - but I'm so torn - I feel like someone needs to take a stand for this dog, and if not me, then who??
I just spent a weekend there visiting my grandchildren, and I can tell you that he was in his crate when I arrived Saturday at 2:30-ish, went outside to go potty at 6:00-ish, and didn't go out again until Sunday morning around 10:00 - and when he goes out, he's on a leash, and he's only out long enough to relieve himself. Plus, they give him food and water once a day, in the morning, then take both dishes out - so he doesn't even have access to water all day.
This thing just makes me crazy - I'll let y'all know what I come up with, if anything... -
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Re: what to do...?
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 7:54 AMThis makes me very angry and I am going to say the "hard thing" here -- they are abusing and neglecting this dog. Keeping a dog separate from the family, crated all day without food and especially water, is the same as keeping it chained up in the back yard.
I think you already know what you need to do, you said it yourself in your first post.
If you need some advice and help with this, here are some links:
www.oregonhumane.org/reportabuse.htm
www.paw-rescue.org/PAW/PETT...imals.php
I have lots more to say about the people who are doing this but I don't think you want to see those words in print. -
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Re: what to do...?
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 9:56 AMThank you for that - I do feel that the dog is being abused and neglected - I've had trouble finding anyone who agrees....you know, there are still a lot of people "out there" who feel that if an animal is being fed and is not being beaten, it's all good. And I've heard a number of times "well, that's too bad, but there's nothing you can do". apathy.
I'm psyching myself up for action here - if Louie wasn't my son's dog, I know that I would have reported this long ago - I KNOW this. I'll keep you posted about what happens next... -
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Re: what to do...?
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 4:11 PMYou might try gathering information to give to your son and then tell him outright that if he doesn't surrender the dog to you that you will report him. I know it is a hard thing to say to someone, often more difficult with family, and you do run the risk of totally alienating your son and daughter-in-law. But the dog's well-being is at risk here and saying they love him obviously does not translate into knowing how to care for and properly treat a dog. Good luck!!
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Re: what to do...?
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 2:58 PMIf you live close, you could take him to a dog park everyday. And your son is a bit of a selfish jerk not to let the dog go somewhere nice. -
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Re: what to do...?
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 4:16 PMI live about an hour and 1/2 away - quite the drive - but I have researched dog parks in their area, and have offered to pay for the dog to go to a doggy day care...I'm in the process of negotiating with my son and daughter in law right now, having sent them an e-mail and some information about what constitutes neglect and abuse. I told them that what they are doing is actually a crime. My son is sounding quite guilty and sad at this point, but my daughter in law is really pissed off at me - she says "I can't give him away! that would be like giving one of my children away!" - I pointed out that A)she wouldn't keep one of her children in a box all day and night, and B) if she DID, the child would be TAKEN away.
She told me again that I need to back off about it, but this time I told her that I just can't do that. I'm seeing this thing through, and if they want to disown me over it, so be it. -
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Re: what to do...?
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 6:42 PMGood for you for sticking with it.
I'll bet the reason your d-in-law is getting angry at you is that deep down inside she knows she is in the wrong. But instead of agreeing with you (i.e. an admission of guilt and thus feelings of shame) she is going to try to make you feel bad for doing this to her so she doesn't have to face it and experience the emotions.
She is wrong and you are right. Maybe you and your son can work something out together and then he can work on her to get "on board."
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Re: what to do...?
Sun, March 19, 2006 - 5:32 AMGrrrrrrrrr. Labs do NOT belong in a box all day! Those people are being so very mean!! You need to save Louie, please, Sally! At the very least, they should have a long doggie cable staked in their yard, so he can be out to run during the daytime! They just need to be sure he has some shelter/shade then. He does not need to be in a box outside! Us Labs need to be able to run and play! (And we're perfectly happy with a thrift store blanket to sleep on. We don't need a fancy bed. )
Mommie says she will be praying for Louie, and for your success in helping him. I am sending him good doggie vibes.
Please keep us up on what happens. -
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Re: what to do...?
Mon, March 20, 2006 - 9:12 AMBless your heart Sally to be an advocate for Louie...It looks like you are working out a solution that will work for you, your son, the d-in-law and the dog. The world needs more people like you. It will be nicer for everyone if people start speaking up like you have.
I know it is not easy! You have my suppiort and prayers also as well as all the humans and canines involved!
Please let us know what happens...
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 21, 2006 - 5:04 PMLet me tell you how I acquired my second shepherd, Molly,
Molly was the product of a divorce, when the man and wife split she took one dog and he got the other, poor Molly got the worse end of that deal. He didn't want her, but just to be nasty he kept her, kept her in a crate for 18 months!
then my daughter started dating his roomate, she felt bad for Molly and told me about it, me, never one to mind my own business where animal cruelty is concerned told her to tell him to either surrender the dog to me or I'd have him investigated and make life so difficult for him that he'd wish he did. The upshot was he told my daughter to take the dog if she wanted her so bad.
I have a 12 year old shepherd and didn't really want this dog but couldn't turn her away, She needed a home so I invited her to live with me.
Molly was a sad case when I got her, very very skinny, dull eyes, extremely long toenails and didn't understand a word I said to her.
First thing I did was take her to my vet, she was healthy enough but she was thin and her back legs are slightly deformed from living in a crate while she was growing, had no mussle mass at all.
So day after day I'd take her to the ballfield and let her play, she didn't know how to play or even what toys were. But she caught on fast. Her legs will always be somewhat deformed, nothing I can do about that but now she is a dog to be proud of. She knows exactly what I say to her and obeys perfectly. Even my vet commented on what a miracle I had worked with her. She is now a happy, well adjusted dog and a pleasure to live with. And beautiful besides.
I forgot to add someone had hit her in the head and broke a blood vessel in her ear so now it doesn't stand as straight as the other but doesn't seem to bother her. but with all her physical faults I wouldn't give her up for the world. A show dog she'll never be but I don't care, I love her just the way she is
I glad I made the decision to do something about her situation. She is so grateful and such a joy to be around.
All I can say is I wish I were a judge, I'd look for a bigger book to throw at abusers -
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 21, 2006 - 6:01 PMthank you all for your wise advice and support - I'm still going around and around with my son and his wife, and have also rallied several family members to lend their support and help me find Louie a new home. I'm thinking that if I can find someone in the family or at least someone they know, it will make it easier for them to give him up.
It also helps to not be the only "over reacting" nut job talking to them about this, and now that it's out in the open (within the family), something is going to be happening soon.
I wish I could take him myself, but since my divorce I'm in an apartment, and right now I'm taking care of my sister's cat while she's in the process of moving to Hawaii.
Slowly but surely - it's a fine line I'm walking here...trying to get Louie out of that situation as fast as I can, but trying to do it in the right way, without making my son and his wife feel like I'm attacking them (as much as I'd like to sometimes).
Good job with Molly, Linda! Isn't it awesome what good old fashioned LOVE can do?
I rescued a white shepherd from an animal shelter several years ago - she was on death row, and it was her last day...they actually tried to disuade me from adopting her because they didn't think she was going to recover from the abuse and trauma she had suffered.
I took her anyway - even my vet was skeptical - she turned into this big, beautiful, happy, confident creature....eventually I had to find her a new home where she would have room to run, because she LOVED to just run and run. I found some people with a 22 acre ranch, and that's where she lived the rest of her life, chasing rabbits - they sent me updates and photos right to the end (she lived to be 16 years old, which I think is pretty good for a big dog).
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 21, 2006 - 6:52 PMI just posted some pictures of my girls, check them out -
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 21, 2006 - 7:28 PMoh, they're gorgeous! thanks for sharing...
really beautiful dogs - I wish I had a scanner...I took "before and after" photos of Neysa (the shepherd I rescued), and also have some great pictures of my 3 eskies (I had to leave them with my ex, because he got the house - sniff) - but no way to post them.
dang.
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 28, 2006 - 5:35 AMLinda,
mom is curious if you have any idea what happened to the 'wife' who was deprived of Molly? Mom thinks it would be nice if you were able to let her know that Molly is alive and well, and maybe send her a picture. Let her know that the jerk isn't able to torture her any more. She is safe.
Oh, and we think all of your furries are beautiful. :) (Me & mom, that is. ) -
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Re: what to do...?
Tue, March 28, 2006 - 6:31 AMThe x wife is someplace is Florida, I tried to get in touch with her but was unsuccessful. At the time I could have arranged transportation to get Molly to her if she wanted her but was unable to locate her. The x husband was not being very co operative and wouldn't tell us anything -
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 4:58 PMSo things have improved a bit for Louie - not perfect, but progress is being made...
My son and daughter in law have been allowing Louie to hang out with them in the house (out of the box) after the kids go to bed at night, and after some initial wildness, Louie has learned to sit or lay down quietly with them, follows them around the house - just hangs out.
Amazing.
Right now it's important for everyone to speak softly and walk slowly when he's out, because he quickly becomes overly excited.
They're hoping that eventually he'll get used to it enough that he can be out while the kids are up - this could take some time.
They've also been making time to take him outside and play "fetch" - my son says he's been doing this every night when he comes home from work - as long as they can keep him focused on the game, they've found that he WILL stay in the yard.
They've bought him a large doghouse for outside, a stake and a 40 foot chain.....I don't like to see a dog chained at all, either, but it's very long, he has the doghouse for shelter, and it's only for relatively brief periods when they want him to be outside but no one has time to actually play or take him for a walk.
In the meantime, they are looking for a house with a fenced or fenceable yard, and still apparently waiting on that kennel.
Anyway - it's been pretty intense, but it seems that they've gotten the message and are doing the best they can right now - I'll just have to keep watching...
Thank you all for all of your advice and support - you all helped and inspired me so much, even at times when I felt like I was just going to have to back off and leave it, I'd come back and read some of these posts and think "well, no, dammit - I'm NOT backing off!"
pats on the head to all of you!
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 6:25 PMWell pats on the head and a big hug to you Sally for sticking to it for Louie's sake! Thanks so much for the update.
It actually sounds like this poor dog just needs training and that if your son and daughter-in-law will spend the time to teach Louie how they want him to behave that he will come along quite nicely. It's funny how some people think that dogs will just pick up good behavior naturally -- by osmosis or by observation or something.
Labs can be soooo energetic when they are young, which also means they can be destructive and physically overwhelming to people. But they have big hearts and are so joyful and enthusiastic that if they are given the right training they can be as good as gold -- 70% of the dogs used as guide dogs for the blind are labs so they are obviously trainable and can learn to be calm: www.guidedogsofamerica.org/breeds.html
One thing I've learned now that we have a terrier (and talk about a dog that can get uncontrollably excited) is that we have had to teach Strider how to be calm and quiet. Training him to sit has helped with that -- he has to sit down quietly before I will pet him or cuddle with him otherwise he is sooooo happy he is jumping at my face and licking like mad. Training him to lay down (and then working on the long down -- at least 15 minutes) is teaching him to chill out when we don't want him to bother us or guests.
So it all has to come from the people pack leaders and hopefully your son and daughter-in -law can begin to understand their role in teaching Louie to be a good doggie. -
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 7:27 PMSally, Thanks so much for your update on Louie, sounds like things may work out for Louie where he is at...Keep watching and giving your son and daughter -in-law good advice so they don't slip back into locking him up...
Bless you for caring about him and please let us know how it is going. Louie is getting old enough now to be calmer and it might just work out well.
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Tue, April 4, 2006 - 5:05 AM
Thank you for not giving up, Sally! *doggie kissies*
Cable is better than chain, but chain is better than not being able to run in the yard. (Chain has more chance of injury. We can be kind of sensitive about our feet. ) But still, *much* better than being stuck in a box all day!
Us Labs are very smart, and we can learn things pretty easy if we are taught (sp?) in the right manner. We want to learn. -
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Thu, April 13, 2006 - 11:45 AMJust talked to my son again -- Louie is very happy right now with his long chain; it's long enough for him to run around the yard a bit, he has access to his dog house, the garage (they leave the side door open so he can actually go in), plus the front porch, and they are making sure he has a big bowl of water within reach.
My son says Louie is much calmer and happier, barks less, and has chilled out enough that they are able to have him in the house "at large" more and more.
I think one of the reasons he barks less is because when he had a kennel outside, it was pretty far from the house and he probably felt sort of helpless in terms of protecting his house, and barking was all he could do -- now that he is able to "patrol" the perimeters, sit on the porch, etc., he doesn't need to do all the barking.
Just a theory. Plus it was a way of saying "HEY!!! I'M OVER HERE!!!"
So it's a huge improvement, and I'm glad I pushed.
Thank you guys again for listening and urging me on!
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Thu, April 13, 2006 - 11:54 AMOh it is so good of you Sally to help the dog. I hope you continue to monitor Louie and his progress. I, for one, am rooting for him getting all the way into the house all the time. There are many links on dog training and i worry that your son and wife will leave him chained up outside without monitoring him, which can lead to problems...stray dog attacks on Louie, him becoming territorial and aggressive.
But bless you, you have made progress! Message me if you want links to training sites and you can innundate your son and wife with information. Gently remind them that dogs are pack animals. Louie wants to be with the pack, i.e. inside the house. They will have to train him how to behave once inside. Fortunately Labs are famous for being rally smart and easy to train. Also since they have small kids it might behoove them to read this article, umm let me get the link and I'll post it right after this message... -
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Re: what to do...? UPDATE
Thu, April 13, 2006 - 12:02 PMOk, here is an excellent resource
www.safekidssafedogs.com/index.html
all parents and dog owners should check this out!
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